Summary
Oral agreements can be legally binding but are hard to prove without written documentation. Distinguish between consultant and employee roles to mitigate liability. Gather evidence like invoices, payment records, and communications to clarify the nature of the work. Consult a legal professional for personalized advice.Full Conversation
My father owned his construction company until Apr *. From there on I took over as CEO. So what also happened is, in mid * the construction company boarded as service provider at a insurance company here in South Africa. So now, in around middle * we got notified by the insurance of a claim that we need to attend to. We provided a report that there were some serious issues, foundational etc, and the claim was denied, but still they received a cash settlement from the insurance company, these clients(this client is a broker registered with them, working as a partner for them) and so what transpired was that they insisted, especially the wife, that my father then do the job from their cash settlement, ie a private job. So what turned out was a nightmare, the husband(broker) became angered at some point, my father always had to beg for the money, advances for each part of the job, to be paid, and eventually there was a bad argument, and my father had some money still(advance) from them, they ordered him off site since I had a argument with the broker, and the broker became emotional and wished that no further services be rendered. They claimed the money was stolen, the advance provided, my father never wanted to go off the site, but the husband`s ego stood in the way. No all of the sudden after some time, we received a combined summons for amount that differs from his initial summons, and also this time he changed the respondent being my father, to the company I own now. I warned my father not to work there, but the company of mine was used and utilised to work on private capacity there. What does this mean for me, although he still refers to my father in some places. I assume he does not know that the company is owed by me, or is this a game being played.
Hi ****,
To clarify your situation and provide better guidance:
- Could you confirm if the contract for the work was made with your father's company or directly with your father as an individual?
- Do you have written agreements for the advance payments and the scope of work?
- Have you consulted a local attorney regarding the combined summons?
This information will help provide more specific legal guidance.
I used to deal with my father directly, but he used to ask for company based invoices. Some invoices came from a book my father carried with him, these general purpose invoice books, not having the company logo or any affiliation with the company. So I cannot say for sure if it was totally company based or just my father then, since I use my father to this day as consultant, but as said, I never wished for him to work for them, since given husbnad wife dynamics.
Hi ****,
Thanks for the detailed background. To better understand and provide appropriate guidance:
- Can you confirm if there were any written contracts or agreements signed between your father (or his company) and the broker/client regarding this job?
This will help clarify the legal obligations and responsibilities.
no, no contracts I was aware of or agreements.
Hi ****,
Thank you for the detailed information. Without written contracts, the situation might rely heavily on the evidence of the services provided and payments made. To give you a more accurate guidance:
- Can you confirm if there are any written communications, such as emails or messages, that outline the scope of the work and payment terms?
This could help determine the nature of the agreement and responsibilities.
Hi, you help me alot, but could not get your last reply fully
Hi ****,
Thank you for your patience. To clarify based on our previous conversation:
- Without written contracts, your situation relies on evidence like emails or messages outlining work scope and payment terms.
- Do you have any written communications that detail these aspects?
This can help determine the legal standing and potential defenses.
Not much, pretty much his word against that of my father.
Hi ****,
Thank you for the detailed information. Given that there are minimal written communications, the situation becomes more challenging. Here are some general considerations for your case in South Africa:
- **Oral Agreements:** In South African law, oral agreements can still be legally binding but are harder to prove.
- **Evidence:** Collect any possible evidence, such as payment records, text messages, or witness testimonies.
- **Legal Advice:** Consult a legal professional for personalized advice and representation.
Is there any specific evidence you have that might support your father's version of events?
Yes, but given its my company, what to think and do here? He initially made a summons against my father, came back with a combined summons, and then lastly in this summons he still addresses my father in some sections.
Hi ****,
Thank you for the additional details. Here are some general points to consider given your situation in South Africa:
- **Summons and Respondent:** If the summons now names your company as the respondent, you may be held liable as the current owner.
- **Mixed References:** The fact that the summons still addresses your father might indicate confusion or an attempt to link both entities.
Recommendations:
- **Legal Representation:** It's crucial to consult a legal professional to review the summons and provide specific advice.
- **Evidence Compilation:** Gather all possible evidence, including payment records and any communications, to support your defense.
- **Clarify Ownership:** Make it clear that you now own the company, which might help in distinguishing between your father's actions and your company's liability.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area?
Yes, but given my father acted as a consultant, and used company resources, and was almost rather more of a private job than anything else for him this broker now all of the sudden targetting my company.. If I highlight to him its my company since April *, and his work started since June *, what recourse is there, what are my options, how does this affect me? Remember, I only provided him proof of payment, invoice he basically asked for, with my company`s logo etc on. The rest all came from a book my father carries with him, which he used for invoicing etc.
Hi ****,
Thank you for the detailed information. Given your situation in South Africa, here are some general points to consider:
- **Timeline Clarification:** Clearly outline the timeline of ownership and involvement to distinguish between your father's actions and your company's liability.
- **Consultation Role:** Emphasize your father's role as a consultant, not an employee.
- **Evidence:** Compile all evidence showing the distinction between company work and your father's private work.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area?
- **Consultation Role:** Emphasize your father's role as a consultant, not an employee.
- **Evidence:** Compile all evidence showing the distinction between company work and your father's private work. What do these mean in detail please. What are the difference/implications if my father was a employee rather than consultant, please help me understand please.
Hi ****,
Certainly! Here’s a detailed explanation:
Consultation Role vs. Employee Role:
Consultant:
- **Independent Contractor:** Works independently, not under direct control.
- **No Employment Benefits:** No entitlements like paid leave, health benefits.
- **Contract Basis:** Usually works per project or as needed, without long-term commitment.
- **Tax Implications:** Responsible for their own taxes and may work for multiple clients.
Employee:
- **Controlled Environment:** Works under the direct supervision and control of the employer.
- **Employment Benefits:** Entitled to benefits like paid leave, health insurance.
- **Continuous Employment:** Generally has a long-term commitment to the company.
- **Tax Implications:** Taxes are withheld by the employer.
Evidence Compilation:
*. **Invoices:**
- **Consultant Invoices:** Show invoices from your father’s personal book.
- **Company Invoices:** Present invoices issued by your company.
*. **Payment Records:**
- **Private Payments:** Bank transfers or receipts showing payments to your father directly.
- **Company Payments:** Payments made to the company’s account.
*. **Communications:**
- **Private Work:** Emails, messages, or any written communication where your father is the
Please provide the last reply again in full.
Certainly! Here’s the detailed explanation again:
Consultation Role vs. Employee Role:
Consultant:
- **Independent Contractor:** Works independently, not under direct control.
- **No Employment Benefits:** No entitlements like paid leave, health benefits.
- **Contract Basis:** Usually works per project or as needed, without long-term commitment.
- **Tax Implications:** Responsible for their own taxes and may work for multiple clients.
Employee:
- **Controlled Environment:** Works under the direct supervision and control of the employer.
- **Employment Benefits:** Entitled to benefits like paid leave, health insurance.
- **Continuous Employment:** Generally has a long-term commitment to the company.
- **Tax Implications:** Taxes are withheld by the employer.
Evidence Compilation:
*. **Invoices:**
- **Consultant Invoices:** Show invoices from your father’s personal book.
- **Company Invoices:** Present invoices issued by your company.
*. **Payment Records:**
- **Private Payments:** Bank transfers or receipts showing payments to your father directly.
- **Company Payments:** Payments made to the company’s account.
*. **Communications:**
- **Private Work:** Emails, messages, or any written communication where your father is the primary contact and
Given some emails address Neels, others to me, because he told them possibly I am the owner. But what implications differences are there between a employee or consultant given this scenario?
Hi ****,
Here are the implications of your father being an employee vs. a consultant in your situation:
Consultant:
- **Liability:** Your company may not be directly liable for his actions as he operates independently.
- **Contract Basis:** Projects are handled on a per-project basis, reducing long-term company commitments.
- **Tax Responsibility:** He is responsible for his own taxes.
Employee:
- **Liability:** Your company could be held liable for his actions as he is under company control.
- **Continuous Employment:** He would have a long-term commitment, implying the company oversees his work.
- **Tax Withholding:** The company is responsible for withholding his taxes.
Evidence Compilation:
*. **Invoices:**
- **Consultant Invoices:** Invoices from your father’s personal book.
- **Company Invoices:** Invoices issued by your company.
*. **Payment Records:**
- **Private Payments:** Direct payments to your father.
- **Company Payments:** Payments to the company’s account.
*. **Communications:**
- **Private Work:** Emails or messages where your father is the main contact.
Would you like further assistance on this?
Okay but lastly then the contract or oral basis, since there was no agreement ever mentioned.
Hi ****,
Here are some key points on oral agreements and contracts in South Africa:
- **Oral Agreements:** Can be legally binding but challenging to prove without written documentation.
- **Evidence:** Crucial to have any form of evidence like emails, text messages, payment records.
- **Legal Advice:** Strongly recommended to consult a legal professional for personalized guidance.
Would you like help finding a legal professional in your area?
Okay so but what are the implications for me?
Hi ****,
Given the situation in South Africa, here are the implications for you:
- **Company Liability:** As the current owner, your company may be held liable for actions taken by your father if the work was done under the company name.
- **Evidence Importance:** Lack of written contracts makes it crucial to gather all possible evidence (invoices, emails, payment records).
- **Clarification Needed:** Clearly distinguish between your father’s private work and the company’s work to mitigate liability.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area for personalized advice?
- **Clarification Needed:** Clearly distinguish between your father’s private work and the company’s work to mitigate liability. I need help on this please.
Hi ****,
Certainly! Here’s how you can clearly distinguish between your father's private work and the company's work to mitigate liability:
*. **Invoices:**
- **Consultant Invoices:** Identify and separate invoices from your father’s personal book.
- **Company Invoices:** Consolidate invoices issued by your company with the company logo and name.
*. **Payment Records:**
- **Private Payments:** Collect bank transfers or receipts showing payments made directly to your father.
- **Company Payments:** Gather records of payments made to the company’s account.
*. **Communications:**
- **Private Work:** Compile emails, text messages, or written communication where your father is the primary contact, indicating the work was done privately.
- **Company Work:** Collect all communications involving your company, showing official involvement in the project.
*. **Clarify Roles:**
- Clearly state in any communication and documentation that your father acted as a consultant, not an employee.
*. **Document Timeline:**
- Create a detailed timeline showing when your father’s private work occurred versus company work, especially highlighting the change in company ownership.
Would you like help finding a legal professional in your area to assist you further?
I have prove that this guy caused us our contract and loss of income. What can I do?
Hi ****,
To address your situation and seek recourse for the contract loss and income:
- **Evidence Collection:** Gather all evidence proving the broker's actions led to the contract loss, including emails, messages, and payment records.
- **Legal Notice:** Consider sending a formal legal notice to the broker, detailing your claims and evidence.
- **Litigation:** Consult a legal professional to explore filing a lawsuit for damages due to the broker's actions.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area for personalized advice?
Cost us our contract, apologies correction. What can I do?
Hi ****,
I understand your concern. Here are steps you can take:
- **Evidence Collection:** Gather all documentation proving the broker’s actions led to the contract loss (emails, messages, payment records).
- **Legal Notice:** Consider sending a formal legal notice to the broker, detailing your claims and evidence.
- **Litigation:** Consult a legal professional to explore filing a lawsuit for damages due to the broker's actions.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area?
So I can make a counter claim against him?
Hi ****,
Yes, you can potentially make a counterclaim against the broker for causing your company to lose the contract and income. Here are the steps you should follow:
- **Evidence Collection:** Gather all documentation proving the broker's actions led to the contract loss (emails, messages, payment records).
- **Legal Notice:** Send a formal legal notice to the broker, detailing your claims and evidence.
- **Legal Consultation:** Consult a legal professional to explore filing a counterclaim for damages.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area for personalized advice?
What does this legal notice look like?
Hi ****,
Here is a basic outline of what a legal notice might look like in your situation:
---
~Legal Notice~
**To:** [Broker's Name and Address]
**From:** [Your Company Name and Address]
**Date:** [Current Date]
**Subject:** Claim for Damages Due to Contract Loss
Dear [Broker's Name],
This notice is to formally inform you that we are seeking compensation for the loss of a contract and income due to your actions.
**Background:**
- On [Date], our company [Company Name] entered into an agreement with [Client/Insurance Company].
- Due to your actions, specifically [detailed actions], we have experienced a loss of contract and significant financial damage.
**Evidence:**
- Emails and messages: [Briefly describe]
- Payment records: [Briefly describe]
- Any other relevant evidence
**Claim:**
We demand compensation for the following:
- Loss of income: [Specify amount]
- Additional damages: [Specify if any]
We request that you respond to this notice within [number] days to resolve this matter amicably. Failure to do so will compel us to take legal action to recover the damages caused by your actions.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
[Your
One more question. His combined summons which he sent, he acted first and I want to react by doing a counter claim. But this summons he sent, stamped by the court in middle August * already, its today 17th of September *. This is a late delivery or someone intentionally held this summons letter back, seeing there is a 14 days to react, and finding it only today in my mailbox, what do I do?
Hi ****,
I'm sorry to hear about the delay in receiving the combined summons. Here are some steps you can take:
- **Immediate Action:** Contact the court immediately to inform them of the late delivery and seek an extension to file your response.
- **Document Everything:** Keep records of when you received the summons and any related communication.
- **Legal Advice:** Consult a legal professional to ensure proper handling of the situation and to help you file a counterclaim.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area for personalized advice?
But since I dont have a cctv at the mailbox, anyone could have taken out my mail in mailbox, kept it for sometime to set me up intentionally, and then placed it back. If this was the case, how can I prove to court I received it late? Will they be reasonable?
Hi ****,
I understand your concern. Here are some steps to address the situation of late mail delivery and proving it to the court:
*. **Immediate Action:**
- Contact the court right away to inform them of the late delivery and request an extension to file your response.
*. **Document Everything:**
- Keep a record of when you actually received the summons.
- Document any communication with the court regarding the late delivery.
*. **Sworn Affidavit:**
- Consider submitting a sworn affidavit explaining the circumstances of the late receipt. Include any evidence that supports your claim, such as the postmark date on the envelope.
*. **Request Hearing:**
- Request a hearing to explain the situation in person, if possible. This might help the court understand the circumstances better.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area for personalized advice?
No it was not in envelope, it was a bare stapled court document ie combined summons that was placed directly into the mailbox, and not received at my front door.
Hi ****,
Given that the combined summons was not in an envelope and placed directly into your mailbox, here are steps you can take:
*. **Immediate Action:**
- Contact the court immediately to inform them of the late delivery and request an extension to file your response.
*. **Document Everything:**
- Keep a record of the exact date and time you found the summons in your mailbox.
- Document your communication with the court regarding the late delivery.
*. **Sworn Affidavit:**
- Submit a sworn affidavit explaining the circumstances of how and when you received the summons. Mention that it was directly placed in your mailbox without an envelope.
*. **Request Hearing:**
- Request a hearing to explain the situation in person, if possible. This can help the court better understand your circumstances.
Would you like assistance in finding a legal professional in your area to help with this process?
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